greg
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Posts: 19
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Post by greg on Dec 29, 2009 13:27:12 GMT -6
I was at work one Saturday. I only go to that location about every other Saturday to do quality control for weekend production. And I heard a clunk from the lab. And I asked my coworker, who is there full-time, what that was. He said I'll get used to it. It happens all the time, he doesn't know what it is.
That had me wondering what someone else might have made of an unexplained noise, and what qualifies as paranormal. Like if you go home and your deodorant is jacked up, is a ghost really the most reasonable explanation? Some people would blame it on a ghost (the lady who told me about it did), because, it's so unlikely that a visitor did it, or she had forgotten doing it herself, while that's exactly the kind of thing that a ghost is likely to do. I suppose.
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Post by BHPI Mark on Dec 30, 2009 10:05:40 GMT -6
Greg,
This is the big question out there. I think a lot of activity is blamed on paranormal activity when clearly it is not paranormal and simply either environmental, structural, natural, or chemical. A lot of people will jump to a conclusion of paranormal activity at the first hint of something going bump in the night, when all they have to do is go check it out and find out the truth.
As far as the kind of things ghosts do, I don't have a clue and personally I don't think anyone else does either. It is easy to go about our daily lives and forget how we left our deodorant or toothpaste. We do these tasks so often that we just do not notice the smaller details of how we left a certain object. There have been times that I will search all over the house for my glasses, and was sure that I put them on the table. I might find them in the bathroom but I don't attribute it to paranormal activity or a ghost, just CRS (can't remember s#$!).
As a paranormal investigator/researcher myself, I tend to set the standards of paranormal activity much higher. I tend to look at noises as normal structural noises, but I also investigate the noises to track down a cause. If I can recreate it this just means that the actions I took to make the same sound is a plausible reason. However, what caused the action to make that noise? I look for the cause and if I find it I can debunk it as paranormal conclusively. Even if I cannot I still am not convinced that it is paranormal, I just might not have found a cause for the noise. This also goes for what you describe about the deodorant being jacked up, there is no way you can attribute paranormal activity to this unless you set up your equipment to observe and record.
One thing I have found while I have been doing this is the fact that if people are adamant about their home being haunted, there is nothing you can do to change their minds. We have shown some of our clients proof that what they claim to be a haunting or paranormal in nature is natural and we can recreate it and debunk it and they don't care. They stick to their guns and tell us that we just did not capture the activity, and if we did it would prove their place haunted.
So I guess what qualifies as paranormal is in the eyes of the beholder.
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greg
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Post by greg on Dec 30, 2009 13:29:03 GMT -6
Conversely, how many paranormal events might have occurred that just weren't recognized? Maybe because there might have been another explanation that seemed good enough, maybe because the person it happened to just didn't think much about it.
Your own experiences are interesting, with homeowners skeptical of a natural explanation.
It does seem to me, though, that the more irrational something is, the more likely a ghost will be blamed for it. It's as if nobody expects people to do something like that, but nobody is surprised if a ghost does it.
At a different job I'd had a piece of equipment disassembled to repair. And after making the repair began to reassemble it. But there was a screw missing. I looked everywhere for it, and eventually wound up taking a trip down the hall to the supply room to get another one. When I got back, the missing screw was on the table in plain sight right where I'd been sitting. Besides making a few jokes about Guide Hall gremlins, I didn't think much more about it. But those gremlins eventually wound up taking the blame for a lot of other things that didn't work out the way I had wanted. It was just more fun that way.
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Post by BHPI Mark on Jan 2, 2010 9:40:52 GMT -6
It is funny you mention not recognizing or throwing out evidence if another explanation is found. The team I am on has pretty stringent protocols when it comes to reviewing evidence after an investigation. We have actually thrown out evidence we discovered was tainted or we just could not come to a consensus on its validity. No doubt we have thrown out legitimate evidence, but if there is ever a doubt in our minds, then imagine the doubt in others and they would tear the evidence apart.
As for blaming something strange on a ghost, this is where good methodical investigative techniques come into play. If you start out neutral on the occurrence and start peeling the layers of what it could be and you end up in the end with nothing reasonable, you could have possible paranormal activity. I ascribe to the simplest explanation, however incredible is usually the best. With one caveat; properly collected, analyzed, and relevant evidence should back your incredible claim.
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cerberus
Junior Member
"A loving heart is the truest wisdom"
Posts: 66
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Post by cerberus on Jan 4, 2010 21:28:14 GMT -6
As i always do, i start with the most logical and earth based explanations for seemingly unexplainable events. Once i have exhausted all possibilities and tested as many as possible, I rule in favor of paranormal activity. It normally takes a while since i have to replicate the conditions under which said occurence happened because i currently lack the equippment to record and document the occurences. However, i'm working on saving up for that right now. Winter being my downtime normally, i'm working on compiling my "to do" list for next year.
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greg
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Post by greg on Jan 5, 2010 15:43:16 GMT -6
Are there positive indications of paranormal activity, or is it just the condition of no other explanation sufficing?
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cerberus
Junior Member
"A loving heart is the truest wisdom"
Posts: 66
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Post by cerberus on Jan 5, 2010 16:24:52 GMT -6
At least in my case, i only rule in favor of paranormal activity after i've exhausted all possible and logical explanations. Only rarely will I ever jump to the paranormal conclusion quickly. Sometimes there are instances in which there is no other explanation but that. But once again, thats after i've tried to figure it out using logical means.
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greg
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Post by greg on Jan 6, 2010 12:35:06 GMT -6
It's understandable to judge by ruling out everything else. But it seems a little disappointing that there wouldn't be some kind of signature of the paranormal. It's too bad nobody has come up with a PKE meter yet.
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Post by fbnstephen on Jan 6, 2010 13:03:53 GMT -6
It's understandable to judge by ruling out everything else. But it seems a little disappointing that there wouldn't be some kind of signature of the paranormal. It's too bad nobody has come up with a PKE meter yet. I fully believe that somewhere there is that 'signature' - we just don't know what it is yet. I think that the field is in the 'observational' stage of the scientific process, thousands of paranormal teams (even if they don't know it.) are helping to build a picture of the tendencies and proclivities of paranormal entities or phenomena. I feel that someday we will get there, but every time an investigator attempts to pass off a d'orb as 'spirit energy' we take a small step backwards. This is why many investigations teams support the methodology of investigation that works first from disbelief, eliminating natural explanations until all we are left with is the un-natural. For me, this method is not dissappointing at all, but very encouraging - within the last couple of years I have began feeling as if the field is finally moving forward. )Stephen falls off his soapbox into a giant pile of snow(
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Post by BHPI Mark on Mar 19, 2010 11:31:08 GMT -6
It's understandable to judge by ruling out everything else. But it seems a little disappointing that there wouldn't be some kind of signature of the paranormal. It's too bad nobody has come up with a PKE meter yet. I fully believe that somewhere there is that 'signature' - we just don't know what it is yet. I think that the field is in the 'observational' stage of the scientific process, thousands of paranormal teams (even if they don't know it.) are helping to build a picture of the tendencies and proclivities of paranormal entities or phenomena. I feel that someday we will get there, but every time an investigator attempts to pass off a d'orb as 'spirit energy' we take a small step backwards. This is why many investigations teams support the methodology of investigation that works first from disbelief, eliminating natural explanations until all we are left with is the un-natural. For me, this method is not dissappointing at all, but very encouraging - within the last couple of years I have began feeling as if the field is finally moving forward. )Stephen falls off his soapbox into a giant pile of snow( You make a great point, however, I think this field has been in the observational stage since the beginning of paranormal studies and will continue in the observational mode. We have just refined our techniques through better equipment to record these observable phenomena. I agree with you that through this observation we are getting a better picture of conditions that are best suited to capture possible paranormal phenomena. In fact, right now I could name off a few conditions where we have captured possible paranormal activity and most of you will have the same conditions. This is a starting point, but still does not address the question of "positive indications of paranormal activity" as Greg points out. Maybe certain environmental conditions are directly linked to certain paranormal activity and we are just all ignoring the obvious because we are all standing around in a dark environment. As an example my group investigated an old defunct brothel in Deadwood. We noticed that when we were actively investigating we were getting a lot of EVP activity i.e., voices, phrases, and encounters with phantom smells and shadows. When we were not actively investigating, taking a break, we captured a lot of movement such as footsteps and dragging noises. This is just my hypothesis, but I thought since this was once a very active location with a lot of intense emotion, could it be that our movements and asking questions was a catalyst for the 'spirits' to want to interact? And, when we were not present, on break, they were not as active since they did not have the energy to feed off? In fact the employees of the location reported that when no one was in the brothel area they would often hear footsteps. However, when an employee reported they had to go upstairs into the brothel, they experienced unseen hands touching them and had experiences with disembodied voices, shadows, and phantoms smells...the same exact thing that happened to us when we were present. It would seem that this might be an indicator of paranormal activity. We are starting to document times, locations, temps, EMF, and what the investigator was doing when the activity was noticed. Hopefully this will provide us some answers to the question of what is a positive indication of paranormal activity. Maybe then we can compare notes to see if there is a commonality in each case that we should be looking for. If we see it develop, then there could be a strong possibility that we are going to capture something valid. But, then again, that is just me talking out loud. ;D
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Post by eidolonshade on Mar 23, 2010 23:59:29 GMT -6
Just wondering do you believe in god, and the vail? if you do that my help explain some of the "Paranormal" its just some one trying to comunicate with some one else I don't understand why it freaks people out so bad do you?
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Post by BHPI Mark on Mar 24, 2010 11:28:05 GMT -6
Just wondering do you believe in god, and the vail? if you do that my help explain some of the "Paranormal" its just some one trying to comunicate with some one else I don't understand why it freaks people out so bad do you? You bring up a very interesting point. Without starting a discussion on religion, Yes, I do believe in God. And I do think that there are many references in the bible that relates to paranormal subjects. The bible speaks of the Holy Ghost, and there are many references where prominent figures in the bible had visions of angles and heard the voice of God. It might sound funny, but I am always making the statement that I am a skeptic, but a skeptic who believes. I guess a more appropriate statement would be, I am a skeptic who has faith! I agree with you that people do get 'freaked out' by paranormal activity but, I can understand why. We are told starting at a young age that paranormal subjects are for those who are a little crazy in the head. If you believe in ghosts or any other subject related to paranormal activity, well then you must be a little off, or crazy. So, when you experience your first paranormal incident, you either dismiss it as not happening, or your outlook changes. One last thing then I'm done... ;D...I don't believe any of this can harm you unless you allow it to cause you harm. If you are going to investigate the paranormal you need to prepare yourself mentally to be prepared for anything. I can guarantee you that more investigators are hurt running pell-mell into a wall or falling down steps when they get spooked. If you experience something that frightens you, keep your composure and calmly walk from the location.
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Post by eidolonshade on Mar 24, 2010 13:44:29 GMT -6
True i totally agree. But i think I'm one of the few people who was never told believing was crazy, my mom is kindof out there to begin with I was told to believe and be unafraid. And I've seen and heard way to much in my 21 years not to believe in ghosts and the paranormal. And Keeping composure is good advice thanks
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Post by tritne on Mar 24, 2010 13:52:16 GMT -6
Just joined, one of the places I work at, is OK during the day, but a lot of people don't like to be there after 8:00pm, I am one of them, I try to make sure I am not alone. I have heard voices when there shouldn't be any. Along time ago some one mentioned that they had heard of some occult things being done at the building site. Don't know. Yes I believe in God/Higher power- we all have different names for him/her., I have heard and seen some strange things, but get the "willies "when I start looking into them.
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Post by eidolonshade on Mar 24, 2010 19:20:13 GMT -6
Tritne just understand that all these things may be doing is trying to get your attention. And getting the willies is normal I worked at a theater where two auditoriums had a really bad vibe and i always saw faces in the projection booth when no one was near there at all. It made me wanna stay away from the projection booth.
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