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Post by bobbybuka on Sept 28, 2008 12:05:11 GMT -6
that the Ouija board works has been proved countless times over and that messing around with them can cause you a lot of damage has been also been proved many times by various psychical researchers who've spent decades in this field and are affiliated with reputable organisations like the SPR drake, could you please provide a link to some of this "proof" that you feel exists? also, I want to ask about "psychical researchers" but I'm worried that the answer would just make my head hurt.
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Post by drakeconstantine on Sept 29, 2008 8:13:40 GMT -6
visit this link:http://www.lexscien.org/lexscien/index.jsp and register
read:the history of witchcraft and demonology by Montague Summers :The Mammoth Book Of The Supernatural by Damon Wilson
SPR Journal 20,1921-22, pp. 191-8. Instances of veridical information given concerning deceased persons,
JP Volume 59, 1995 page 69-76
PSPR Volume 55, 1966-1972 page 95-103
and many others
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Post by bobbybuka on Sept 30, 2008 9:36:07 GMT -6
OH - I see the problem, drake - you misunderstood me completely!
I was asking for real "factual" documentation...not fictional nonsense.
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Post by drakeconstantine on Sept 30, 2008 12:05:06 GMT -6
OH - I see the problem, drake - you misunderstood me completely! I was asking for real "factual" documentation...not fictional nonsense. well incase you didn't realise this is actual factual documentation,these cases have been throughly investigated by people who are definitely way more experienced than you or me unless you can claim having spent more than 40 years studying the paranormal like many of these researchers have,you seem to be quite interested in swigs,well these cases have been investigated by people like them and besides there are plenty of eye witnesses in each case and each report prepared by the investigators has been signed by all involved verifying that the events mentioned took place but ofcourse they were lying now weren't they?some of them are still alive today, why don't you try contacting them? and anyway if you're too stubborn to just face facts then that can't be helped... so basically according to you all the people on boards like these are attention seeking liars,the thousand of cases that have been investigated and recorded are all lies made up by investigators,I mean sure they might have exposed hundreds of hoaxes,fradulent mediums and disproved many other claims but we're just gonna assumed they're lying now aren't we? and I guess all those people who first contacted them were all probably liars too, and wait the news paper reporters and journalists present who were a third party not related to psychical research at all were obviously lying too when they printed that they themselves had witness a number of incidents recorded by the investigators there what you're going through bobby is called a paranoid delusion.... You say its all "fictional nonsense" but before denouncing it all as crap did you even actually bother to buy one of those books and even look at the cover??? and anway can you prove that you're right? if so i'd love to see the evidence, the people who investigated these cases have an overwhelming amount of evidence to show that they're right, can you claim the same? basically you've started off with the belief that ouija boards simply cannot work instead of actually trying to find out whether they do or do not, If you can prove you're right that i'd happile revise my position on the authenticity of the ouija board,you see for me its not about winning arguments and proving my point its about knowing whats real and whats not.As C.G .Jung once said " I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud."
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Post by bobbybuka on Sept 30, 2008 12:45:28 GMT -6
you know, drake - you're going to believe whatever you want to believe anyway, so it really makes no difference what I say right now.
but I would like to try to make you understand a few small little points...
first of all, I make my living as a "researcher" - a real one - in fact, I head a department at the University of Wisconsin so I do have some slight understanding of "research" and what you have chosen to believe is not research, because there is absolutely no "control" in place.
It would probably take me several full lectures to explain to you what that means, and I think you'd still reject the science of research anyway, because it simply isn't "fun" or "exciting" or whatever else you'd like to believe.
Let me try to give you the quick cliff notes explanation, though - just for fun...
let's say you use one of those dreaded Ouija Boards and you grow horns and a tail...you have not proven "cause and effect" which means that there is just simply no proof that the action of using the Ouija Board caused you to grow the horns and the tail...How do you know that you wouldn't have grown the horns and the tail even if you had never touched the dreaded Ouija Board??
The negative experiences that people have with Ouija Boards which is the premise that you seem to want to argue about...compare that to the "cause and effect" of tobacco use/cigarette smoking on people's health! Researchers had to PROVE that a significant percentage of smokers experienced negative effects on their health - COMPARED TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T SMOKE OR USE TOBACCO! And do you have any idea how hard that was to do? You see, people who never smoke a cigarette in their life have "health problems" too...so the exact "health problems" experienced had to be determined, endless long term studies had to be conducted....
I'm trying to keep the discussion "light" but the example I just gave demonstrated why research is not legitimate if it is not conducted using scientific controls.
Do you know how many people play around with "OUIJA BOARDS" - ?? Seriously....think about that, they are sold in stores, for god's sake, so what percentage of the population has ever used a Ouija Board?
NOW - what percentage of the population has had any "negative effect" as a result of using that Ouija Board?
That's "cause and effect" as it relates to research, and if you can't even begin to answer those questions - then you simply are not doing "research" - all you're doing is telling ghost stories on the internet.
And this applies to any and all research that anybody could possibly conduct - from stem cells to haunted houses.
In the entire history of mankind, there has been only one man who conducted genuine scientific research within the field of the paranormal...that would be J B Rhine and he's the only one who could ever be called a researcher in "parapsychology" or a true "parapsychologist"...I thought you were going to mention him when I asked for proof.
(by the way - the "Rhine Research Center" which exists today probably has old J B rolling over in his grave because they are fakes, frauds and charletons and they are using his good name)
so you ask about all the "stories" that people will post on boards like these?
they are stories and nothing more...anything I say is just another story on a message board, too, so don't misinterpret anything that I'm saying.
-and yes, I'm very interested in what the members of "SWIGS" have to say because they are describing their experiences - and I believe that they are describing their experiences truthfully...
you'll notice that neither of the SWIGS members have said anything really goofy, right?
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Post by caricat on Sept 30, 2008 20:03:33 GMT -6
okay bobbybuka the only reason i had selene reply for me was becase I was busy eating goldfish crackers! most(like three words) of what she said is true but she gets mad when ever some one messes with an ouija it was made for professionals and if you have used it many times before I'M fine with that she just doesn't want others to encourage dumb people that don't know how to use one and here is another answer to your question and I hope you have noticed this I AM NOT A NORMAL PERSON nor are the other people who belive in the paranormal but we have to hide it in public otherwise we would all be in a phyciatric ward for one reason or another
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Post by mealoaf on Oct 1, 2008 4:21:33 GMT -6
yea i have a ouija board this one time i used it to talk to this ghost in my house that runs up and down my hallway and my friend asked the ghost to run up and down the hallway after she asked that we heard foot steps in the hallway i haven,t use after that happen trust me don,t play with the ouija boards
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swigs
Full Member
Posts: 215
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Post by swigs on Oct 1, 2008 6:06:09 GMT -6
if the board is made for professionals then why does Parker Brothers make them?
and just because someone wants to use one and isn't your kind of "professional" doesn't make them dumb.
and if you don't like people arguing with what your saying then post about a different topic.
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Post by drakeconstantine on Oct 1, 2008 10:33:03 GMT -6
You know bobby i'd like to to quote what you're saying but i don't want to put any one here through the experience of reading that again,and believe me I'm well aware of the experimental method with it's IV(independent variable),DV(dependent variable),CV (Control Variable,which prevents confounding.) but have you forgotten about the case study method?which is also used and is a respectable method of research.but You know when you're doing something like researching the paranormal setting up two almost identical experiments are set and then eliminating one factor or more factor so that any difference can be attributed to that factor(s) always occurs because in case you didn't realise the only difference between an ordinary person who lives his life normally and someone who reports distressing psychic phenomena happening too and around them is that the latter has tried to mess around with thing they do not understand
And bobby you also mentioned "cause and effect",well you see in most cases the causes and effects of almost phenomena are not found simultaneously with the observation of the afforementioned phenomena,so in simple english that means that the moment you see something or find out about something you don't have an explanation for it... you see its a bit like a primitive man seeing lightning and saying it can't exist because he is not aware of the cause and effect of lightning instead of trying to figure out the actual cause and effect I also see that you also happened to mention that ouija boards are sold in stores and so obviously a major part of the population has used them,but definitely not all of them have experienced any untoward events that can be attributed to their experiments with the ouija board,but have you forgotten many many people have had unsavoury experiences that can be credited too their usage of the ouija board?,unfortunately only a tiny fraction of these people actually come forward and make their story known,because most people would think they're mentally disturbed and need to be locked up?,and majority of those who report such events have been discriminated against by the people around them including several cases where people have lost their jobs without any reasons cited for their dismissal,after you think about this and compare it with the"its all for fun and excitement" theory it just doesn't figure,and when you think about that inspite of this there are hundreds of thousands of cases that have been reported,well maybe you'll think again.
The sheer volume of the number of cases that have been authenticated beyond all doubts(including many by former hardcore skeptics) prove that the ouija does work,the causes of this may not be known but the effects have been seen, can you provide evidence to disprove each and every one of those cases? The people who have brought these cases have an extremely impressive amount of evidence to prove their point (corroboration from witness who hitherto were unknown to them,plenty of eye witnesses,photographs of unexplainable events that have been verified by not one but several experts in the field of photography)
by the way you also mentioned that you head a department at the university of wisconsin,not that i'm doubting you but could you produce valid credentials certifying that?
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Post by bobbybuka on Oct 1, 2008 10:43:51 GMT -6
drake, I can send you my "bio" on the UW website - which tells you how to contact me...you could call my office right now if you'd like....
but how do I know that you aren't some sort of dangerous psychotic internet freak?
(after all, the only thing that I really know about you is that you enjoy tellling little stories on a message board) - now, I'm not saying that's a bad thing or would have to mean that there is anything "wrong" with you in the least!!!! But it certainly doesn't give me any indication that you are somebody who I would want knowing my personal and professional contact information.
so if you're comfortable sending me your "personal information" - I would be able to check you out...Wisconsin has great "online access" to circuit court cases and people's criminal history, and once you know the exact details of my research position, you'll understand that I have access to an awful lot of information!
HOWEVER - I'd also warn you that at the present time, you don't know any more about me than I know about you.
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Post by drakeconstantine on Oct 1, 2008 10:52:49 GMT -6
Lol, bobby anyway I've been conversing rationally with you and have not given any indication that i'm a "psychotic internet freak" to put it in your words and anyway i understand your concern it's completely legitimate i mean millions of people chat on the internet with each other and there have been a few cases the like of which you talk of,scary odds now aren't they
anyway I don't have any problems contacting you,for anyone reading your posts its obvious that you seem to be a very intelligent individual and not at all inclined to indulge in any form of violent or abnormal behaviour in anyway, and yeah while i'm sure you have great "online access" to circuit court cases and people's criminal history I do doubt you have any information pertaining to the legal and criminal history of citizens of India., but anyway you can try. and by the way your paranoid delusions seem to be getting worse
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Post by bobbybuka on Oct 1, 2008 11:16:12 GMT -6
did your post get cut off?
the last line reads:
"i mean millions of people chat on the internet with each other and can you"
so I'm not sure if you were asking a question or something...but no, you don't come across as a "psychotic internet freak" at all, but absolutely everybody needs to be careful online!!!
I was going to explain this on that "SWIGS" topic...I "met up" with a group from Illinois last year, and I had originally just started communicating with them on a message board like this...the "leader" was very open about all of his own "personal information" and I was able to look up a lot about this guy...he owns his own business (nothing to do with the paranormal) and his business has a great reputation as he does personally, too - so I assumed this group was completely trustworthy.....
I guess all I want to say about them is that I had a very bad experience meeting up with these people....I'm more concerned that this group of "psychotic internet freaks" knows who I am - much more concerned then I would ever be about a Ouija Board!!!
I don't want want to "fight" with you, drake!!! I just want to be able to honestly express my beliefs the same way that you are expressing yours.
EDIT: ok, your post is complete now....you're from India?
yeah, I'd guess that you won't show up on the Wisconsin Circuit Court site then!
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Post by drakeconstantine on Oct 1, 2008 11:20:33 GMT -6
Yup i'm indian unfortunately anyway Neither do I want to fight with bobby,believe me I have absolutely no problem being proved wrong as long as i know the truth,anyway I'm sorry to here about your experience with people you met on the net
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Post by bobbybuka on Oct 1, 2008 11:31:53 GMT -6
Yup i'm indian unfortunately anyway Neither do I want to fight with bobby,believe me I have absolutely no problem being proved wrong as long as i know the truth,anyway I'm sorry to here about your experience with people you met on the net i hope everything turned out allright in the end soooooo....did you really just imply that being concerned about strangers on the internet is a "paranoid delusion" - ?? WOW - if you look at it that way, I'm not surprised by some of your other views, drake.
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Post by drakeconstantine on Oct 1, 2008 11:40:45 GMT -6
no I don't think that being concerned about strangers on the internet is a paranoid delusion, but the way you phrased it did make it seem a bit......extreme....anyway i accept that comment was in bad taste. I apologise
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